提琴中国社区

 找回密码
 注册/Register
楼主: johnthornton

A VERY NICE CELLO BOW, 19TH CENTURY; FRENCH OR GERMAN?

  [复制链接]

29

主题

16

好友

3341

积分

论坛元老

Rank: 8Rank: 8

在线时间
1793 小时
威望
3333
贡献
8
琴元
0
最后登录
2010-7-23
注册时间
2006-11-26
主题
29
精华
1
积分
3341
阅读权限
90
帖子
858
发表于 2008-11-25 23:24:29 |显示全部楼层
谢谢cozio,谢谢郑老师!
<BR />恩,又学到了~
小提琴做的完美了却变的不完美了,小提琴是一个很完美的乐器,却没有完美的小提琴~~~

29

主题

16

好友

3341

积分

论坛元老

Rank: 8Rank: 8

在线时间
1793 小时
威望
3333
贡献
8
琴元
0
最后登录
2010-7-23
注册时间
2006-11-26
主题
29
精华
1
积分
3341
阅读权限
90
帖子
858
发表于 2008-11-25 23:31:50 |显示全部楼层
继续翻译一下~
<BR />One American dealer gave the attribution as "possibly from the Knopf shop, mid 19th century,  possible market value 4 - 6K USD". -
<BR />I guess that you live in California.
<BR />A Nurnberger cello bow, I don't the price there.
<BR />The Knopf cello bow is excellent. I prefer it to a Sartory bow. But it is difficult to purchase.
小提琴做的完美了却变的不完美了,小提琴是一个很完美的乐器,却没有完美的小提琴~~~

186

主题

14

好友

1万

积分

社区观察员

Rank: 5Rank: 5

在线时间
1428 小时
威望
15910
贡献
57
琴元
0
最后登录
2017-6-21
注册时间
2008-8-3
主题
186
精华
13
积分
15967
阅读权限
50
帖子
3453

Medal No.1 Medal No.2 Medal No.3 Medal No.4

发表于 2008-11-26 01:11:19 |显示全部楼层
<P>
原帖由 <I>cozio</I> 于 2008-11-25 22:29 发表 <A href="http://bbs.cnstrad.com/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=91214&amp;ptid=16982" target="_blank"><IMG src="http://bbs.cnstrad.com/images/common/back.gif" border="0" alt=""></A>
<BR />One American dealer gave the attribution as "possibly from the Knopf
<BR />shop, mid 19th century,  possible market value 4 - 6K USD". -我感覺你住在加州 我猜的
<BR />
<BR />Nurnberger 一把大 ...
<BR />
<BR /></P><P></P><P>Cozio大师, 他应该是阿拉巴马州的, 除非他跟南加州大学的Thornton音乐学院有关.  <IMG src="http://bbs.cnstrad.com/images/smilies/default/em80.gif" border="0" smilieid="194" alt=""> </P>
斗鸡山上山鸡斗
龙隐岩中岩隐龙

17

主题

36

好友

3085

积分

版主

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7

在线时间
984 小时
威望
2108
贡献
977
琴元
0
最后登录
2017-6-22
注册时间
2008-11-21
主题
17
精华
0
积分
3085
阅读权限
100
帖子
244
发表于 2008-11-26 04:11:07 |显示全部楼层
<P>Honourable Cozio, and others: You are doing a very good thing which is of great benefit to many with lesser knowledge, but wishing to increase their knowledge. I am most grateful to you, Maestro Cozio, and to those who assist by translating your comments. Now I will add a view of the "ridge" running down the front of the head, which I find to be most interesting. I would also appreciate reading any further commentary by anyone who wishes to participate. </P>
<BR /><P>Thank you,</P>
<BR /><P>John</P>

Cello bow, ridge, front of head.

Cello bow, ridge, front of head.

186

主题

14

好友

1万

积分

社区观察员

Rank: 5Rank: 5

在线时间
1428 小时
威望
15910
贡献
57
琴元
0
最后登录
2017-6-21
注册时间
2008-8-3
主题
186
精华
13
积分
15967
阅读权限
50
帖子
3453

Medal No.1 Medal No.2 Medal No.3 Medal No.4

发表于 2008-11-26 04:28:19 |显示全部楼层
Maestro Cozio guesses that you are from California (I guessed Alabama! emem56.gif ).  He asks what a Nurnberger cello bow would sell for there.  He likes Knopf very much, even more so than Sartory , but it is very rare and very difficult to purchase.
斗鸡山上山鸡斗
龙隐岩中岩隐龙

17

主题

36

好友

3085

积分

版主

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7

在线时间
984 小时
威望
2108
贡献
977
琴元
0
最后登录
2017-6-22
注册时间
2008-11-21
主题
17
精华
0
积分
3085
阅读权限
100
帖子
244
发表于 2008-11-26 04:43:37 |显示全部楼层
Dear sfy281,
<BR />
<BR />I live in the state of Alabama, Escambia county, city of Brewton.  (zipcode) 36426
<BR />
<BR />John

17

主题

36

好友

3085

积分

版主

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7

在线时间
984 小时
威望
2108
贡献
977
琴元
0
最后登录
2017-6-22
注册时间
2008-11-21
主题
17
精华
0
积分
3085
阅读权限
100
帖子
244
发表于 2008-11-26 05:02:31 |显示全部楼层
Dear Maestro Cozio,
<BR />
<BR />The market for finer instruments and their bows (in Alabama) is mostly limited to the major cities of Mobile, Huntsville, Birmingham  where there are Symphonic Organizations, Birmingham being the largest and best known. However, almost all orchestral members conduct business with various shops in Atlanta, Georgia, a couple hours drive to the east from Birmingham.  A few serious collectors live in Alabama and Georgia, having very nice collections of  some rather important instruments. I am quite familiar with some of these instruments as their owners are my friends. I did own for a short time a very nice Nurnberger violin bow, which the head had been broken but nicely repaired. It now resides with its new owner in Singapore. who is very happy with the bow since I let him have it a very reasonable price, as the damage did not affect performance.  Cello bows of any make or origin are rarely found in my area so I am always on the lookout for good quality pieces in the hope of passing them on to those who may have real need of them. (I am a beginner level amateur as violin player and do not play the cello, but own a couple that  need restoration). Violoncellos are very nice and interesting instruments. I think.
<BR />
<BR />Thank you, Maestro Cozio, for asking.
<BR />
<BR />John

248

主题

65

好友

2万

积分

超级版主

活在琴裡的人

Rank: 8Rank: 8

在线时间
3251 小时
威望
21120
贡献
3276
琴元
0
最后登录
2017-2-15
注册时间
2007-12-3
主题
248
精华
17
积分
24396
阅读权限
150
帖子
1953

Medal No.1 Medal No.2 Medal No.3 Medal No.4 Medal No.5 Medal No.6

发表于 2008-11-26 08:49:24 |显示全部楼层
About Ridge<br><br>相當不整 一條線條都沒有 (不要猜是D Prccatte , Maire) <br>狹長的弓頭邊&nbsp; 是典型德國弓的象徵<br>
R&D Department manager : Cozio
GB Group

186

主题

14

好友

1万

积分

社区观察员

Rank: 5Rank: 5

在线时间
1428 小时
威望
15910
贡献
57
琴元
0
最后登录
2017-6-21
注册时间
2008-8-3
主题
186
精华
13
积分
15967
阅读权限
50
帖子
3453

Medal No.1 Medal No.2 Medal No.3 Medal No.4

发表于 2008-11-26 09:11:15 |显示全部楼层
Maestro Cozio said:
<BR />
<BR />About the ridge, it is not very neat, not even a line (thus wiil not guess it as D Peccatte , Maire).
<BR />The long and narrow bow head side is typical of a German bow.
斗鸡山上山鸡斗
龙隐岩中岩隐龙

17

主题

36

好友

3085

积分

版主

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7

在线时间
984 小时
威望
2108
贡献
977
琴元
0
最后登录
2017-6-22
注册时间
2008-11-21
主题
17
精华
0
积分
3085
阅读权限
100
帖子
244
发表于 2008-11-26 09:38:11 |显示全部楼层
Mastro Cozio states: (Google translation)
<BR />'Not quite a whole line did not (do not think it is D Prccatte, Maire)
<BR />The narrow margin in the first arch is a symbol of the typical German bow"
<BR />----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<BR />
<BR />Thank you Maestro Cozio, I understand your reasonings.
<BR />However the American authorities, Kass and Childs, offer documents with detailed explanations of the appearance of the front ridge, and the back bevels on the bows of the  "most favored"  French archetiers, F.X. Tourte and D. Peccate. I have copies of these documents which I have read very carefully and fully understand.. 1. P. Kass states  (paraphrased)  "The front ridge is often filed to a sharp point and  veers slightly to the left when the head is viewed from above,  The bevels to the back face broaden slightly in the middle" -  (D. Peccate).
<BR />
<BR />2. P. Childs states: (http://phonoarchive.org/grove/Entries/S28231.htm)  
<BR />"There is little evidence, however, of a constant evolution of the models of the heads, Tourte creating as his inspiration took him. The heads also begin to exhibit the individual working mannerisms that connoisseurs look for to establish authenticity. These include the 'travelling', almost meandering, ridge down the head's front, the angular disruptions to the curve of the back of the head (when viewed in profile); and the remarkably individual chamfers, which are usually quite exposed. The violin-bow heads now have ivory head-plates as a rule, but the collo bows are found more often than not with silver head-plates. The latter are mostly octagonal and the most common model of head is the 'hatchet' with a distinctly inclined front. ** Other cello bows have heads akin to violin bow models and, very rarely, 'swan heads'.**
<BR />
<BR />Honourable Maestro Cozio, I now ask of you the following question:
<BR />Is it completely outside the realm of possiblitly that this violoncello bow was made by F. X. Tourte?
<BR />Thank you, sir. I stand by for your response.
<BR />
<BR />John
您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 注册/Register

手机版|archiver|中国提琴网 ( 鄂ICP备14018301号-1 )|人工智能

GMT+8, 2018-7-23 15:59

Powered by Discuz! X2.5

© 2001-2012 Comsenz Inc.Email:cnstrad@126.com

回顶部